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So I finally gave Honeyminer a try. (my personal semi-review)
This review was last updated 11-30-18 When I first was interested in trying this program I couldn't find anything about it. it seems a lot of people were too scared to try it since their is like no information about it other then from the web page itself. to be honest I was a bit scared to try it. I've tried many other software of this kind, on a "test" machine I'm not afraid to lose on a secondary network and router... incase its a scam or gonna give me a virus and I suggest anyone installing mining software do the same as a rule of thumb. please keep in mind the software is still relatively new and they are working to improve it still. They seem to be hiring as well if your interested in helping them grow by working for them look near the bottom for their contact e-mail. ____________________________________________________________________________________________________ This review is for the windows version of Honyminer Because its still relatively new I knew could go one of two ways "sacm software" like most every mobile mining app or even quite a few desktop ones - Or legit. I'm glad to say after using it for a month it seems legit. I was able to withdraw from it no problem. If your system is really crappy It might not work that well on your computer or mining rig. There are no ads and the program doesn't seem to disrupt any day to day activity at least not on my main system, however you can of course expect increased heat production of your system as with any mining software, adequate cooling is important in mining. Anyways Honyminer is as close to an easy one click mining software as I have come. they seem to be making a "pro" version too for more hardcore miners. They do take a fee which is to be expected *look near the bottom for fee information\* but that fee goes down significantly if you have multiple GPU's mining.. The good thing about it for me was it let me kind of set my rig to "autopilot" so to speak. If you wish to see the H/s numbers in real time, go to you settings and view the "expert logs" which will also tell what coin is being mined at the time ____________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Pros
Withdrawals (I know I shouldn't have to say this but some mining software is a scam and wont withdrawal anything. This was tested with coinbase only so far and it went through with no issue.
(new) If you go to your dashboard > Activity on their site you can see a list of all GPUs/CPUS and computers that are minding with information about their temperature, the coin they are currently mining, number of cores, and the potential 24 hour revenue for each. This is just like the "see full activity" feature in the software itself but you can check it from anywhere
(new) You can set the app to only mine via GPU or CPU if you so choose in settings.
(new) a miner console has been added which should make some of the more experienced miners a little happier.
when you click "see full history" it takes you to their webpage where you can see all the transactions (where your Satoshis came from) and are labeled according to how they were acquired (Mining Credit, Mining Bonus, Referral Mining Credit, Referral Mining Credit Tier 2, and Bonus (meaning other kinds of bonuses like from leveling up) They are all time stamped and have an ID number
Easy to use/easy to instal I literally had no trouble setting it up or installing it. it was quick and easy
GPU and CPU mining
Mines many different types of cryptocurrencies depending on what's more profitable at the time (autopilot)
withdrawal as BTC or (it says in the withdrawl section "coming soon ETH, LTC, " but I dont think its a priority yet and Im not sure if they scrapped the idea of USD withdrawals all together or not but I don't see it there)
Idling option: for example soon as you use your mouse or type it will stop mining.
appears in the "task manager" which Is another one I should not have to say but you'd be surprised how many fake mining software will not show up there or will be listed with a inconspicuous logo or disguised as a system process.
Works in system tray if you'd like to multitask and your system is up for it.
can be set to mine soon as you boot-up
Frequent mining "bonuses" you will probably see a lot of them on your transaction history.
A "level-up" system which I've not seen before that pays you extra Satoshis for reaching the next "level" think like exp on video games, you get rewarded for leveling up and the higher your level the higher the bonus generally. the "next bonus" will update the closer you get to leveling up.
You can use multiple computers/rigs on the same account and see them all from any system with the appinstalled.
2 factor authentication which IMO is a must for anything like this, set that up on their webpage asap.
earnings log which you can acass from the website manually or clicking "see full history" on the app
can see your earnings as USD or as BTC.
shows you a quick earning comparison between today, and the previous two days. (if you don't see it update the software)
"pro" version currently in the works which I look forward to trying.
1st and 2nt tier referral rewards.
referral profits DON'T come out of the person you referred profits they come out of Stax Digital's profits so there is no guilt for referring people to this product. I've seen or heard of referral programs that actually punish the referred folks by taking a commission of what the person would have made in addition to taking their normal fee... in this case it comes out of the fee that Honyminer already takes from all users and not anything extra as far as I know.
referee's also get rewarded like if you were to sign up from my links you would get 1000 free Satoshis just for installing the app. (if you prefer to sign up directly that's fine too but there is no signing bonus if you go that route (unless you use someone else's referral link) as far as I'm aware. Whatever works for you really.
team is open to suggestions/feedback, friendly, and respectful.
code is audited (at least at least that's what they say)
you can add multiple wallets on their webpage. and delete them at will.. another one I should not have to say but still even today some places will not give you that basic functionality.
able to see what type of coin each CUP/GPU is mining at the time. (check out the options and "see full activity"
Proandor con (depending on how you look at it)
uninstalling gets rid of most of the components that enable it to be used, but seems to save some of the logs and some other files (but I was able are to search for and remove em in file explorer. many programs of any kind do that always so it's not that big of a con to me but I can see how it may bother some.
you are not asked to create a password, they create one for you but you can change it once you have logged in if you wish from their website. This can be looked at as a good thing to some or a bad thing to others for various reasons. If this is no longer the case please let me know.
when clicking on the app to see your full history of transactions it will take you to their webpage and make you log in again sometimes. this is a good or bad things depending on how you look at it I suppose. I personally prefer having to log in again.
no graphs, +/- earnings overtime comparisons. but it does have some logs to see what your mining in the expert logs section but not as much information as I would like. (miners console was added that also has more detailed info) but im hopeful for the future. Every mining software that was any good started somewhere.
installer was still packed with the first version when I downloaded it onto another setup so yea you need to update it right off the bat. It doesn't take very long, but I like it when software packs installers with the latest version (I don't know if this has changed but if you downloaded it and its already the latest version let me know)
may have trouble initiate some GPU's although I cant possibly test for every kind I have put the ones that didn't work for me below and will update it also if anyone else tells me it doesn't work with a certain setup.
_________________________________________________________________________________________________ COMPATIBILITY: (sorry it keeps adding asterisks to the card model for no reason) WORKED ON: every nvidia card tested so far with card models dating back from 20014 to now.. Worked on some surprising low end and or old CPU and GPUs. like the AMD Radeon R9 380 card in addition to a AMD Athlon II X3 450 Processor and it mines just fine.. of course that processor doesn't make much on its own lol.. but thats an extra 2 or 3 cents per day by itself. I've also tested it with an i3,i2Most AMD cards worked but I ran into issues with a few so maybe it's easier for me to just tell you what did not work. DID NOT WORK ON: --- any of the AMD ATI Radeon HD 4250's tested so far (2) that particular card It didn't work at all for mining like never enabled the gpu but the cpu on that machine did work however it would generate an "error" on start up but otherwise did not disrupt the mining on that system except if I turned on idle earning mode, I would get a bunch of errors as it was trying to access the GPU. we need the functionality to enable or disable hardware individually I think. (errors or no errors it just seems like a good thing to have.) OR a system that had both a AMD Radeon R7 Graphics and a AMD A8-7650K Radeon R7, (4C+6G) which surprised me considering some of the things that did work lol... but I think it might just might be that one system, but either way can't vouch that it will work. That system was pre-built and wont allow the parts to be changed or easily removed to be worth the effort since I have to use it for other things so unfortunately I can't test these on another mainboard at least not with wasting some time, money and patients that Id rather dedicate elsewhere for now. I had some issues using one RX Vega 56 card but i think it's was just that card because another one did work just fine.________________________________________________________________________ FEESW/comparison to nicehash I'm not sure if this post will be helpful to anyone looking into this software or anyone whos looking to try a different mining software but if it dose great. -- nicehash charges the following fees as far as "selling/mining" or withdrawing. Payouts for balances less than 0.1 to external wallet 5% Payouts for balances greater than or equal to 0.1 BTC to external wallet 3% Payouts for balances greater than or equal to 0.001 BTC to NiceHash wallet 2% Withdrawal fees from NiceHash wallet Withdrawals from NiceHash wallet are subjected to the withdrawal fee, which depends on the withdrawn amount and withdrawal option. WITHDRAWAL OPTION AMOUNT TO WITHDRAW FEE Any BTC wallet From 0.002 (min) to 0.05 BTC 0.0001 BTC Any BTC wallet More than 0.05 BTC 0.2% of withdrawn amount Coinbase More than 0.001 BTC FREE - No fee. but they also say Minimum Coinbase withdrawal limit is adjusted dynamically according to the API overload._____________________________________________________________________________ honyminer fees are based on number of GPU's working. 8% for 1 GPU or for 2 GPUs or more the fee is 2.5%. The only withdrawal fee is the standard BTC transaction fee that bitcoin charges and it doesn't go to honyminer. When they add the other withdrawal functions that fee cam be avoided I suppose. _________________________ Earnings: in comparison to nicehash Update: sometimes software / test networks will give a view that can be off + or - a few percent compared to actual. A lot of different things can affect your earnings including where you are located in the world, I'm not sure how many of you uses more than one mining software day to day , ISP issues, crypto price fluctuation, updates to fee's, and inaccuracies in test software/networks can affect results. but I go back and forth between different ones from time to time and I think that's good practice to keep options open. I notice that honey miner seems to do better for me at night-time and early morning/afternoon is when it has the most trouble raking in the crypto's That said I've been trying to test to see how this compares to nice hash earnings, with two of my buddies. So this is an average between the 3 of our profits vs loss compared to nice hash, I'm using a two 10 GPU/ 3 cpu setups, while one of my buddies is using two 1 gpu, 2 cpu setups and the other is using two 30 gpu mini farm's. We each have 2 networks each located relatively close by *less than .5 mile the furthest one* one with honyminer running and the other with nice hash and we are looking over 24 hour periods When all three of us have the results for one day, we average our results together. In all we will be looking over a 14 day period. UPDATE: the results below were done well long before the latest update to the software so I do not know if they have changed, Id have to do another round or perhaps some from the community could give me their results and save me a bit of work. I'm not sure when Id have the time to dig into it again. Sorry that it took me so long before I could get on here to post the results of the last few days of the tests.
Day one: -5%
Day Two: +10
Day Three: +1%
Day Four: -6%
Day Five: -2%
Day Six: +11%
Day seven: +2%
Day eight: +1%
Day Nine: -5%
Day Ten: -11%
Day eleven: +8%
Day Twelve: +1%
Day Thirteen: +1%
Day Fourteen: -1%
Seem to be a bit smaller then nicehash at times and higher at other times. it seems to for me at least payquicker and it gets deposited in my nicehash account sooner than I expected. hopefully when they let up pick which coin to mine on our own it may help somewhat, and any of you who want to move smaller volume will probably benefit when they add the functionality to withdraw other coin/usd. anyways when their autopilot system works it works great but when it doesn't it's just "okay" for lack of a better word... _____________________________________________________ Contact: they have a contact us part on their webpage and they also have a reddit page which I was made aware of from contacting them https://www.reddit.com/HoneyMine Careers: If anyone is interested in working for them the job listings at the time of this typing were for Senior Java Developer(s) and Customer Service Representative(s) the email listed is [[email protected]](mailto:[email protected]). id suggest you check their site for the requirements I just added this part to the review as a courtesy if anyone's interested its not meant to be a focus of it. But I know we have some really talented people on reddit who care about the crypto world passionately so id rather give honyminer a chance to have some of those sort on their team since it might help improve the software faster for the end users.. if that makes sense. _________________________________________________________ UPDATE: If a question reminds me I left out something I think should have mentioned Ill try to add it here so ppl don't have to scroll all over the place.. I don't write many reviews (for anything) so I don't know if this one was any good or not but I hope it was okay.. and I'm still a new reddit user relatively. I just wanted to make this review mainly because there is next to no information on honyminer when I looked for it and maybe it can help anyone whos interested in it. browolf2asked Is it basically like nicehash then? : A: In a way, its like nice hash that its cloud based, but you get paid not just when your pool completes an order. there are no "buyers" only "sellers" if you look at it that way...I hope I'm wording this the right way.. It's just straight up mining and they take their fee but compared to nicehash the fees for "mining" are different karl0525asked: do you know if we can contact the honeyminer dev team and see if they will communicate here on Reddit. Might give them some good ideas what us miners are looking for? Worth a try maybe? Thanks: A: I submitted a question to their "contact us" part of their webpage and I got a reply from them, this is the message I received below: Thank you for writing in and for your interest in Honeyminer. We always welcome feedback and suggestions from our users. We are currently planning on expanding our online and social media presence. Please check our our Reddit page: https://www.reddit.com/HoneyMine
Passive income. It is difficult to find a person who would not love a “freebie”. For this reason, mining has gained such popularity – people want to increase their capital in a short time. To become a miner it is enough to buy the necessary equipment, to assemble the farm and install the software. That’s all! It remains only to click on the start button to launch the process of mining the selected cryptocurrency.
Reliability. Cryptocurrencies are reliably protected and cannot be faked.
Decentralization. Thanks to this feature, no one can control and regulate the currency issuance and the flow of funds on the account. Decentralization makes cryptocurrency independent.
Anonymity. You can’t track information about a person, you can only see the wallet number and its transactions (money transfers).
You can lose coins if you lose access to your wallet. When creating a wallet a special password is generated which is almost impossible to crack. It means that a computer breakdown or loss of password will lead to the loss of coins as well! Therefore, be sure to save the wallet data on a separate medium.
Great volatility – price prediction is almost impossible. And demand today is influenced by many factors including legislation that has not yet been formed in many countries regarding cryptocurrencies. Due to the relatively low capitalization of cryptocurrencies, large players can strongly influence the market. Such players can easily manipulate the market to their advantage.
Prohibition risk – in many countries there are restrictions on the use of cryptocurrencies. In some cases, the ban applies and many have not yet decided exactly how to relate to this phenomenon, but it is clear that cryptocurrencies are confidently conquering the whole world.
Lack of guarantees – cryptocurrencies are arranged in such a way that the owner himself bears all responsibility for them. If in some way intruders take money away from you, then you cannot prove anything to anyone. Even if you keep your coins and tokens in a crypto wallet it won’t be possible to solve a problem in case the wallet was hacked and money is gone.
Bitmain is regarded as one of the most influential companies in the ASIC mining industry. It is estimated that they have manufactured approximately 53% of all mining equipment.Without including their mining profits, that’s around $140 million dollars in sales. These figures are staggering, but Bitmain’s monopoly of the Bitcoin ASIC market may come to an end, following the release of PowerAsic’s asicpower AP9-SHA256.
About the asicpower AP9-SHA256
Designed with brand new technology and boasting 94 TH/s per miner, the AP(-SHA256 is the most powerful and efficient Bitcoin miner to date.PowerAsic claims they spent $12 million dollars on research, development, and prototypes.PowerAsic also noted that their miners take advantage of ASICBOOST, an exploit of Bitcoin’s algorithm which improves mining efficiency by 20%.An unusual approach separate Powerasic’s miner to the other manufactures is the implementation of copper heat-sink claimed to have a superior thermal conductivity 69% better than aluminium. Don’t take their words for it but confirm the facts are correct on widely well known and published science documents as this one.The first batch of miners were announced and made available for order in August of 2019, with start scheduled for shipment in September, 2019. Powerasic claims that the machines are around 40 percent more productive than the most proficient ASIC on the market, Bitmain’s Antminer S17.According to PowerAsic, they started a mining project with the aim to bring much needed competition to the market…We want to ‘make SHA256 great again.Sitting at the hefty price of $2,795.00, the powerasic AP9-SHA256 is far from affordable for the average person. Fortunately, due to the newly born rivalry between Bitmain and Powerasic, the price will probably lower with time and competition.The power supply for this unit is included and integrated in the top-box also including the controler card as a one unit. You will also get standard power cable, network cable, manual and software in the packet. In comparison to the price of the Antminer S17 , the Powerasic AP9-Sha256 is a better value.
The integrated PSU 3300W has a inputVoltage 220V 50Hz 30A. There are 2 fan 40mm., 1 fan 60mm to keep it cool and the power cable 3 legs following CEE 7 standard.Professional mining hardware runs optimally at 220-240V, hence why mining farms step down their own electricity supply to 220-240V. Note that 220V current is only found outside of the US – American outlets are 110V by default. Unless you want to hire an electrician, this could cause some people trouble adapt to the eficient and recomended 220V power needed, still 110V will get the job done, but they are not ideal for optimum mining performance.
Thanks to the powerasic AP9-HA256’s new 7nm generation of ASIC chips, the AP9-SHA256 has become the most electrically-efficient miner on the market.Consuming merely 30.J/TB, or 2860W from the wall, the 16T is 30% more electrically-efficient than the Antminer S17.
Powerasic ’s new ASIC technology is impressive. When compared to its closest competitor, the Antminer S17, the powerasic AP9-HA256 is the clear winner. It hashes at 94 TH/s, as opposed to the S17’s 56 TH/s. Moreover, the the AP9-HA256 consumes 30J/GH, whereas the S17 consumes 39-45J/TB.The difference in power consumption is miniscule, but when it comes to large-scale mining, the the AP9-HA256’s edge will drastically increase the profitability of a mining operation. This ASIC is profitable not only for mining on a large scale, but for the individual miner as well.Take a look at the projected mining profitability of a single miner:Note that is appears profitable even with high electricity costs ($0.1 per KW/h). With $0.05 / KW/h it’s even more profitable:📷Each powerasic AP9-HA256 will generate about $6,009 per year (calculated with 1 BTC=$10,141.5). Mining profitability may vary. You can usethis free profitability calculator to determine your projected earnings.
Is powerasic AP9-HA256 a Scam?
There is been a lot of talk on Twitter that powerasic AP9-HA256 is a scam. It appears it is not, as many users are already claiming to have received their miners.Slush, the creator ot Slush Mining Pool and the TREZOR hardware wallet, claims on Twitter that he has seen units and knows people who have had their miners delivered:
Verdict: Is The Antminer S17 Outdated?
When the first batch of Bitmain’s Antminer S17 ASICs reached the eager hands of miners, they were all the rage. The S17 was renowned as the most efficient ASIC miner on the market. Many used the S17 as the industry’s golden standard.Up until the launch of the powerasic AP9-HA256, it was the golden standard.But, now?Things have changed.Not only is the powerasic AP9-HA256 more powerful than its predecessor from Bitmain, but also more efficient, and therefore, more profitable.Ever since the announcement of the new ASIC, there was widespread speculation of its legitimacy – and rightly so.The Bitcoin community has been plagued with small, phony companies manipulating images of preexisting antminers as a ploy to hype up their fake products. Nevertheless, powerasic AP9-HA256 is taking things seriously, and their first batch of miners have lived up to expectations.The fact of the matter is, Bitmain’s most powerful and efficient antminer has been dethroned by the new reigning king of ASICs: The powerasic AP9-HA256.
Bitmain has dominated the ASIC market since its inception in 2013.There are a few other companies producing ASICs. However, before the creation of PowerAsics AP9-SHA256., Bitmain was the only company with a proven track record that sold efficient miners directly to the public.Powerasic AP9-HA256 has the potential to bring Bitmain’s monopoly to an end. Powerasic AP9-HA256 has a bright future ahead of them. Now that Bitmain has noteworthy competition, it will be interesting to see how it affects the market. The powerasic AP9-HA256 is the best option (for now) for anyone getting started with mining. Powerasic’s innovation should force other ASIC producers to innovate and force other companies to release new miners with better efficiency. So whether you’re buying a miner now or soon, you’re likely to benefit from the development of this new miner. For more, Visit Us: https://asicpower.net/product.php
The biggest announcement of the month was the new kind of decentralized exchange proposed by @jy-p of Company 0. The Community Discussions section considers the stakeholders' response. dcrd: Peer management and connectivity improvements. Some work for improved sighash algo. A new optimization that gives 3-4x faster serving of headers, which is great for SPV. This was another step towards multipeer parallel downloads – check this issue for a clear overview of progress and planned work for next months (and some engineering delight). As usual, codebase cleanup, improvements to error handling, test infrastructure and test coverage. Decrediton: work towards watching only wallets, lots of bugfixes and visual design improvements. Preliminary work to integrate SPV has begun. Politeia is live on testnet! Useful links: announcement, introduction, command line voting example, example proposal with some votes, mini-guide how to compose a proposal. Trezor: Decred appeared in the firmware update and on Trezor website, currently for testnet only. Next steps are mainnet support and integration in wallets. For the progress of Decrediton support you can track this meta issue. dcrdata: Continued work on Insight API support, see this meta issue for progress overview. It is important for integrations due to its popularity. Ongoing work to add charts. A big database change to improve sorting on the Address page was merged and bumped version to 3.0. Work to visualize agenda voting continues. Ticket splitting: 11-way ticket split from last month has voted (transaction). Ethereum support in atomicswap is progressing and welcomes more eyeballs. decred.org: revamped Press page with dozens of added articles, and a shiny new Roadmap page. decredinfo.com: a new Decred dashboard by lte13. Reddit announcement here. Dev activity stats for June: 245 active PRs, 184 master commits, 25,973 added and 13,575 deleted lines spread across 8 repositories. Contributions came from 2 to 10 developers per repository. (chart)
Hashrate: growth continues, the month started at 15 and ended at 44 PH/s with some wild 30% swings on the way. The peak was 53.9 PH/s. F2Pool was the leader varying between 36% and 59% hashrate, followed by coinmine.pl holding between 18% and 29%. In response to concerns about its hashrate share, F2Pool made a statement that they will consider measures like rising the fees to prevent growing to 51%. Staking: 30-day average ticket price is 94.7 DCR (+3.4). The price was steadily rising from 90.7 to 95.8 peaking at 98.1. Locked DCR grew from 3.68 to 3.81 million DCR, the highest value was 3.83 million corresponding to 47.87% of supply (+0.7% from previous peak). Nodes: there are 240 public listening and 115 normal nodes per dcred.eu. Version distribution: 57% on v1.2.0 (+12%), 25% on v1.1.2 (-13%), 14% on v1.1.0 (-1%). Note: the reported count of non-listening nodes has dropped significantly due to data reset at decred.eu. It will take some time before the crawler collects more data. On top of that, there is no way to exactly count non-listening nodes. To illustrate, an alternative data source, charts.dcr.farm showed 690 reachable nodes on Jul 1. Extraordinary event: 247361 and 247362 were two nearly full blocks. Normally blocks are 10-20 KiB, but these blocks were 374 KiB (max is 384 KiB).
Update from Obelisk: shipping is expected in first half of July and there is non-zero chance to meet hashrate target. Another Chinese ASIC spotted on the web: Flying Fish D18 with 340 GH/s at 180 W costing 2,200 CNY (~340 USD). (asicok.com – translated, also on asicminervalue) dcrASIC team posted a farewell letter. Despite having an awesome 16 nm chip design, they decided to stop the project citing the saturated mining ecosystem and low profitability for their potential customers.
Changenow announced the option to buy DCR with fiat.
TokenPride: "We are seeking feedback on the general setup of our payment processor. We have tried to make it simple and user friendly. 10% of all purchases made in Decred will be donated to the Decred Development fund - and we will be releasing original Decred designs in the future".
BlueYard Capital announced investment in Decred and the intent to be long term supporters and to actively participate in the network's governance. In an overview post they stressed core values of the project:
There are a few other remarkable characteristics that are a testament to the DNA of the team behind Decred: there was no sale of DCR to investors, no venture funding, and no payment to exchanges to be listed – underscoring that the Decred team and contributors are all about doing the right thing for long term (as manifested in their constitution for the project). The most encouraging thing we can see is both the quality and quantity of high calibre developers flocking to the project, in addition to a vibrant community attaching their identity to the project.
The company will be hosting an event in Berlin, see Events below. Arbitrade is now mining Decred.
Campus Party in Brasilia, Brazil. @girino, @Rhama and @matheusd talked about Decred. Matheus was interviewed by a TV channel. Check this quick report about the event, click "Show newer" to continue reading. (photos: 123)
Blockchain Summit in London, UK. This was not a full blown presence with stand but rather investigation of opportunities by @kyle and @Ani. The resulting detailed report is a good example of a document advising to stakeholders whether it is worth spending project funds.
Meetup in Berlin, Germany on July 18. @jz will give a talk and Q&A about Decred and chat with Ele from @oscoin about incentivizing developers. Hosted by BlueYard Capital.
Hey guys! I'd like to share with you my latest adventure: Stakey Club, hosted at stakey.club, is a website dedicated to Decred. I posted a few articles in Brazilian Portuguese and in English. I also translated to Portuguese some posts from the Decred Blog. I hope you like it! (slack)
Decred Assembly - Ep20 - Governance: Driving the Future (youtube) @cburniske and @traceagain discuss the importance of governance protocols being foundational and problems with delegated proof of stake
"I think that developers in the future are going to base their decision on where to build on the basis of governance and community. And so I look for good governance mechanisms and strong communities in blockchains." (@decredproject)
What is on-chain cryptocurrency governance? Is it plutocratic? by Richard Red (medium)
Apples to apples, Decred is 20x more expensive to attack than Bitcoin by Zubair Zia (medium)
What makes Decred different and better from other cryptocurrencies? (cxihub.com)
Community stats: Twitter followers 40,209 (+1,091), Reddit subscribers 8,410 (+243), Slack users 5,830 (+172), GitHub 392 stars and 918 forks of dcrd repository. An update on our communication systems:
Matrix chat logs are nowviewable on the web with the exception of some channels that are not bridged. The new web logs means our chats are now fully public and indexed by search engines.
Slack had an outage on Jun 27 that disturbed communications for a few hours, discussions continued on Decred's bridged platforms.
Jake Yocom-Piatt did an AMA on CryptoTechnology, a forum for serious crypto tech discussion. Some topics covered were Decred attack cost and resistance, voting policies, smart contracts, SPV security, DAO and DPoS. A new kind of DEX was the subject of an extensive discussion in #general, #random, #trading channels as well as Reddit. New channel #thedex was created and attracted more than 100 people. A frequent and fair question is how the DEX would benefit Decred. @lukebp has put it well:
Projects like these help Decred attract talent. Typically, the people that are the best at what they do aren’t driven solely by money. They want to work on interesting projects that they believe in with other talented individuals. Launching a DEX that has no trading fees, no requirement to buy a 3rd party token (including Decred), and that cuts out all middlemen is a clear demonstration of the ethos that Decred was founded on. It helps us get our name out there and attract the type of people that believe in the same mission that we do. (slack)
Another concern that it will slow down other projects was addressed by @davecgh:
The intent is for an external team to take up the mantle and build it, so it won't have any bearing on the current c0 roadmap. The important thing to keep in mind is that the goal of Decred is to have a bunch of independent teams on working on different things. (slack)
A chat about Decred fork resistance started on Twitter and continued in #trading. Community members continue to discuss the finer points of Decred's hybrid system, bringing new users up to speed and answering their questions. The key takeaway from this chat is that the Decred chain is impossible to advance without votes, and to get around that the forker needs to change the protocol in a way that would make it clearly not Decred. "Against community governance" article was discussed on Reddit and #governance. "The Downside of Democracy (and What it Means for Blockchain Governance)" was another article arguing against on-chain governance, discussed here. Reddit recap: mining rig shops discussion; how centralized is Politeia; controversial debate on photos of models that yielded useful discussion on our marketing approach; analysis of a drop in number of transactions; concerns regarding project bus factor, removing central authorities, advertising and full node count – received detailed responses; an argument by insette for maximizing aggregate tx fees; coordinating network upgrades; a new "Why Decred?" thread; a question about quantum resistance with a detailed answer and a recap of current status of quantum resistant algorithms. Chats recap: Programmatic Proof-of-Work (ProgPoW) discussion; possible hashrate of Blake-256 miners is at least ~30% higher than SHA-256d; how Decred is not vulnerable to SPV leaf/node attack.
DCR opened the month at ~$93, reached monthly high of $110, gradually dropped to the low of $58 and closed at $67. In BTC terms it was 0.0125 -> 0.0150 -> 0.0098 -> 0.0105. The downturn coincided with a global decline across the whole crypto market. In the middle of the month Decred was noticed to be #1 in onchainfx "% down from ATH" chart and on this chart by @CoinzTrader. Towards the end of the month it dropped to #3.
Please note: we will not accept any kind of payment to list an asset.
Bithumb got hacked with a $30 m loss. Zcash organized Zcon0, an event in Canada that focused on privacy tech and governance. An interesting insight from Keynote Panel on governance: "There is no such thing as on-chain governance". Microsoft acquired GitHub. There was some debate about whether it is a reason to look into alternative solutions like GitLab right now. It is always a good idea to have a local copy of Decred source code, just in case. Status update from @sumiflow on correcting DCR supply on various sites:
To begin with, none of the below sites were showing the correct supply or market cap for Decred but we've made some progress. coingecko.com, coinlib.io, cryptocompare.com, livecoinwatch.com, worldcoinindex.com - corrected! cryptoindex.co, onchainfx.com - awaiting fix coinmarketcap.com - refused to fix because devs have coins too? (slack)
About This Issue
This is the third issue of Decred Journal after April and May. Most information from third parties is relayed directly from source after a minimal sanity check. The authors of Decred Journal have no ability to verify all claims. Please beware of scams and do your own research. The new public Matrix logs look promising and we hope to transition from Slack links to Matrix links. In the meantime, the way to read Slack links is explained in the previous issue. As usual, any feedback is appreciated: please comment on Reddit, GitHub or #writers_room. Contributions are welcome too, anything from initial collection to final review to translations. Credits (Slack names, alphabetical order): bee and Richard-Red. Special thanks to @Haon for bringing May 2018 issue to medium.
Jamie, Greg - intro, review of doc, mission, vision, etc.
Greg anecdote about community initiative in Colorado
“rough consensus and working code"
Did not take notes for this section, will attempt to fill in later from the video
Nick: Review of how the hard fork process works right now
My understanding of the process
If you want to propose a fork or a change that requires a fork, you write an EIP describing it, submit it to GH as a PR
This is what we’re trying to come to consensus on here: the best way to standardize the EIPs and this discussion process
It will emerge as a draft and will eventually be merged as complete but not implemented
Then it gets discussed at the all core devs meeting, fortnightly
If there is consensus there, and no client implementers want to block its implementation as undoable, then it gets added to a hardfork
Then the clients implement it, set it up to activate at the fork
Final step, political step: Clients are released, people informed about what’s contained, they have the choice to run the hard fork client and agree or not run and continue with the legacy chain
With Byzantium and Frontier, for example, these are relatively uncontroversial
If it’s more controversial it can go as far as the entire community splitting
I view this as extreme and hopefully uncommon but also a safety valve, since one of the points of blockchain is “you can go make your own blockchain with your rules”, then you get two communities each of which is unanimous on one side of the debate
Come to technical not political agreement on the process
Want to make sure that people who have valid technical arguments aren’t drowned out if e.g. you’re the only one who has experienced this problem
Goal isn’t to determine success of a measure by most people supporting it
It’s to find all the objections
Example of Coke vs. Pepsi: rather than a simple show of hands, let’s look at “who can’t tolerate Coke” or “who can’t tolerate Pepsi” and see if there’s some way to resolve it
While addressing objections you may find that one is fatal and can be removed, or maybe there’s a way to address one
Greg: on C++ community we take straw polls with three-way vote: yes, no, “over my dead body”
Tiebreakers went up to votes at the national level, this was unfortunate when it happened and it led to back technical decisions that took years to fix
Voting on technical issues did not work
In holocracy they use the concept of tension
Rather than talk about things and people bring up their emotions and things they don’t like
Instead start a meeting by discussion the tensions everyone has
Proposals to solve them
Talk about whether that proposal harms the organization
If it doesn’t, it’s accepted, there’s no voting whatsoever
Nick: IETF doc warns against “consensus through fatigue”
Even if original person who raised it has given up and walked away, someone else should pick it up and we still need to find a solution
Rough consensus vs. absolute consensus: majority of rest of group determines that objections are irrelevant or have been addressed
This is not the ideal outcome but
You have a chair that runs the working group, come to rough consensus, a person who still objects can appeal to a committee who decides whether the chair acted incorrectly or not
I feel that Ethereum’s process is vaguer and more loose-knit, I doubt we’re going to appoint a tech committee of people who can overrule consensus
Instead we may need out of band meetings
No harm in standardizing two versions of a thing, but then deciding which is better becomes an external thing
Greg: I was upset yesterday (in ewasm panel)
“When they get it on the testnet I’m going to destroy it”
Running code is important, we don’t just talk, it counts a lot when someone says “Yes, the code is running on testnet, we’ve tried all the exploits we can think of, we can’t make it fall over” then someone else has an idea… but the code that’s running is a better argument than code that is not running
We’re in more of a hurry than the IETF is
Technical consensus is more important
If someone gets TCP/IP sort of wrong on their system there are some computers on the network that aren’t working very well, doesn’t matter so much
Whereas nodes in Ethereum that aren’t working very well is far worse
Our human failure at consensus may cause the blockchain to fail, so we have a “very harsh taskmaster”
Bob: On the plus side it’s very measurable
Greg: Let’s say a little more on the process
Creating your proposal - that’s happening on the issues part of Github
Anybody can make an issue and start discussion, and people do
Can also start discussing on any other forum in the world
I’d like more support there because GH issues aren’t necessarily always the best place
I’d like to see more support for people to reach out, find interested people and get more help rather than working alone and not knowing what to do when others in the community know a lot and could help
Support to get to the point of doing the PR
Once the PR comes in, need more support in perfecting it and dealing with incoming criticism
Simply understanding the a PR is just a PR
Recently we had a huge amount of conflict on EIP867
Greg: the argument of whether this should be accepted as a proposal is not even an argument
It’s not up to us as editors to decide whether this is a good thing to do, or not
All we can decide is whether it’s technically possible, and technically sound
As much as possible, I want to carve out a space for technical discussion
Some people argued “I don’t even want to see a proposal that hints that it might be possible”
Greg: “You can pretend there’s no gravity but you’re still going to fall down”
Nick: Let’s talk about why EIPs should be about technical discussion
There’s nothing about ETH that requires hard forks to be standardized via EIPs
There’s nothing authoritative about an EIP except that people agree to read it and follow it, since any user can implement any change based on their own standardization process
We keep this process as useful and valuable as possible by (restricting to technical development?)
Greg: If you read EIP1, it’s the core developers who ultimately decide what goes into a hard fork since they have to write the code
EIP process is really just input to the core devs
Other people can provide input in other ways
Don’t have a stage in EIP process beyond getting a PR merged
We could take on responsibility that as a group we’ve not just said this proposal is technically sound but we’ve come to consensus that this should go into a hard fork—a technically sound proposal that could go into a hard fork without creating any technical issues
If there are political issues, “pass it on” - somebody else has to figure this out
All we can do is provide technical input to that
There are things we may want technically but we can’t do it, or something may be simple technically but we’d need to hire lawyers
Nick: Fund recovery proposal: this is technically simple
Makes the system a little more complex and doesn’t provide extra capabilities to the network
Difficult or impossible to assess whether something should be included based on its merits
Jamie: How would you address potential bias that might occur?
Jeff Coleman: I have a suggestion
Might be nice to have a standard EIP process with explicit disclaimer at the top saying, “This proposal is in technical analysis. Maybe once this analysis is finished, we can say the purpose is for people to resolve other issues.”
One of the unique challenges of our community is that many people can interact on a topic without encountering anyone else’s ideas by being linked directly to a topic
I think an explicit verbal note might be useful
A distinct challenge for our community, in blockchain/cryptoeconomics, economic interest doesn’t just motivate people to prefer something, but it’s also a technical characteristic of the network
After a hard fork, the market decides what to value a network at, and this directly corresponds to the security in a system
Nick: And what other people think the usefulness of a network is
Economic interests distort everything
Makes our life a lot more difficult than the IETF’s
Nick: do people agree it’s worth having an EIP process completely focused on technical agreement and leaves political discussion as an externality?
Question: We need a purpose beyond being just technically good. We’ll be a sitting duck like Bitcoin and be overtaken. We need alignment on values and purpose.
Nick: So maybe we need to be more clear about what we want to be technically good at.
It’s not enough to say that we want to be as technically good as possible, we need to say about what.
Bob: What’s the “Ethereum philosophy”?
Nick: In my mind Ethereum is a general-purpose platform for trustless computing and for coming to consensus, but this is very rough
EIPs, etc. can make this more specific
Make it more useful to a wide variety of applications rather than focus on any one thing
Greg: a more indirect goal is that people know each other better, talk to each other better
As long as we’re scattered around the world and don’t know each other, it gets harder
The Internet is generic too
On humming (IETF style)
Raising hands makes it like a vote, focus on being foagainst
Hum instead — ask people to hum if they’re against something to determine which things need addressing
It’s all about finding and addressing disagreements
Jutta: consensus fatigue can happen more often online
Blocking, brigading etc. much easier online - this meeting here is much more civilized than a lot of the online debate about recovery
Nick: you can’t hold a vote when you don’t know who’s allowed to vote and when you’ve reached majority
You can’t say “53% of people thought this was a good idea”
People on GH express one opinion because they’ve been told by someone else to do that, brigading
In rough consensus, 10,000 voices are no different than one, the question is whether they’ve raised any good technical questions
It’s everyone’s responsibility for all people to say, hey, this is not the right thing to discuss right now
GH has a few issues e.g. lots of emoji, people’s comments, the ones with most thumbs up, but they may not have any bearing on the technical part of the issue
We need to make it clear that there’s a time for comments and issues but tell people, hey not here, not now
It’s difficult to read through these threads on GH because there are pages of people saying “this is a terrible idea” - better if we can stay more focused
GH doesn’t have to be the tool if we find that it’s problematic
e.g. using Ethereum Magicians Discourse forum for threaded conversation
So there may be a better place for those discussions to happen
Nick: EIP editors have the ability to delete comments on GH
Ideally you want a way to moderate discussion without censoring it
IETF has a chair and an editor for each working group
Chair’s job is to seek consensus, maintain a list of outstanding objections and outstanding tech discussions
Doing this may make it easier to avoid being sidetracked by brigading, by e.g. constantly coming back and saying “these are the things we’re here to discuss” and keeping draft up to date with latest consensus
Jamie: a moderator within the EIP itself, a person responsible for maintaining order and summarizing the current state of consensus
In IETF working group, each standard has its own issue tracker and own working group, so the scope is much larger
But a lot of the standards we’re writing are much smaller and simpler
How do you motivate people to write (better proposals?)
Maybe we need an economic model like Steemit
People vote for posts with money, can be upvoted or down voted, which determines how much money they receive
This is how you regulate the community and what people write using economic incentives
Nick: money doesn’t necessarily reflect how valid an objection is
If someone wants to build a new PoW algorithm and I demonstrate that it’s broken then it shouldn’t matter how many people disagree with me, it’s still objectively a valid objection
If you use economics you only come to consensus on opinions not facts
Jeff: differentiation between the before and the after
When a tech proposal has not yet impacted a lot of people it’s easy for a tech community to come up with a proposal on technical merit
In some sense it’s impossible to do a neutral, technical assessment
Being aware that technical consensus is harder after than before
Eg building a requirements document for ETH would’ve been easier before, is now more difficult after, this is a reality of open communities
There are different techniques that you have to bring in after rather than before because of the many interests that become involved
Nick: if you build a system with a particular design constraint, e.g. Bitcoin NOT built with expectation that hard forks would be a path to network upgrades, that makes it difficult or impossible to come to consensus whereas Ethereum was created with this explicit expectation
Anything you don’t constrain ahead of time, makes it much harder to come to consensus afterwards
Greg: We’ve had flame wars since the advent of the internet
In this community oftentimes people like to be anonymous, sometimes using different handles on different channels, sometimes I correspond with “many people” for months and still don’t know who they are
Getting to know each other in person, having some degree of friendship, that helps a lot
Being able to present technical alternatives to the community means you can actually have a meaningful discussion where technical alternatives are clear, can discuss the philosophical, financial, political, legal and other issues without going down the rathole of technical issues as well
And vv, discuss technical issues without getting pulled into non-technical issues
General comment: a lot of people have no idea how decentralized this is!
People seem to think the Foundation “runs and owns” Ethereum
It has some trademarks and a lot of influence but it doesn’t “run” Ethereum!
I like to see a center of gravity to developers that is accountable to us, to developers, not accountable to the Foundation or whatever company you happen to work for, or not
No one pays me to do anything for Ethereum for many months, I’m sure this is true for many of us here
EIP editors are not paid or authorized by anyone to do what we do, we simply chose to do it, it’s valuable input, we do it well
Valuable input to core developers in choosing what goes into their clients
Nick: Greg Would you talk a little bit about how you envisage future meetings going?
A set of ground rules or a constitution
Main topics, how do they operate?
Greg: Working groups organize themselves, somebody volunteers
I want to step back my role over time
David Knott: How do EIP editors get chosen? What’s the process?
Greg: I have no idea
Nick: 9-12 mos ago it was pretty stagnant
Hudson reviewed the process, helped us clarify EIP-1
A bunch of us appointed ourselves as EIP editors with consensus in the group
Part of that took place within EF since Hudson was there, and those were our communication channels
It’s not supposed to be an admin. position, they’re not deciders other than “is this stable?”
This is a valid question! How do we appoint them on an ongoing basis?
Greg: I’m not on the list of editors but I have write privileges to the repo
Nick: I think this makes you an EIP editor
Greg: Most important order of business, do we want to have a meeting in July?
Who works for an org. or can beg for money to support that?
When and where should it happen?
That would be a better meeting at which to get more organized about working groups, chairpeople, who will volunteer to lead as president?
There’s a saying in AA that goes way back (this is another decentralized org): “Our leaders are but servants, they do not govern” - that sort of thing
Basically being president just means taking on a lot of work
People like IETF and AA have been doing decentralized governance for much longer than ETH/BTC
A lot of people don’t know that my PhD is in psychology
Cog Sci says there is some “software” that runs on the brain, I think that’s nonsense so I left it for Computer science
In a good negotiation people don’t just argue at each other, each argues both sides
Should be a cooperative effort not a fight, need to come up with best formulation
Can come forward with two different well formulated ideas
Bob: Casper is a good example of this
What’s going on? We have two versions of Casper!
Nick: and some people say we shouldn’t have it at all
Greg: I used to worry about the wasted energy (of PoW), then in an airline magazine I discovered there’s a whole ring of towns in the arctic that have almost unlimited hydropower which is so far away from anywhere they can’t make any use of it, can’t get it to anywhere
And it’s very cold, so almost unlimited refrigeration
They’re setting up mining farms
So in fact it’s not a big problem, they can keep doing PoW and they have plenty of electricity and cooling
Maybe we’ll never have PoS
They can get bits out, they just can’t get mass quantities of electricity out
On governance, this discussion has been centered around a small number of well-known people
So there’s a lot of education for people to get involved in this part
Incentives: why would I get involved when there are people who are more educated than I am?
Only ~8 ppl of 50-60 people have spoken here
On Github, anybody can raise an issue
But it’s usually the people who are well known whose voices are louder
I don’t think you can avoid this but in order to level the field maybe there’s some way to open this up to more people
Nick: Have a chair that keeps track of disagreements and technical issues
Brainwriting: have people submit ideas before coming together in person - prevents bias, allows all voices to be heard
There are many people who are not strongly opinionated who prefer working over arguing
Do we want to meet in July, and who’s going to volunteer to try to make that happen?
Ashley: Web3 foundation can host in Berlin, we can secure a venue
Majority agrees that this organization is useful and that they can meet in Berlin in July
The dates are not so accurate here and there. There could be a little bit editing, but mostly, original conversation.
For a transparency and a big support to IF!
7/10 microhash - 06/28/2018 Thanks for the advice, guys. Already told eric that I'm interested, now it's up to the IF. dom - Today at 3:04 AM no, we do not work with Bosch on Jinn Fahad Sheikh - Today at 3:14 AM There is a lot to look forward to, didn't ya'll see the Project List that Edward posted in Medium? Coordicide being the most interesting one IMO. Come-from-Beyond - Today at 6:34 AM [bro which company will manufacture the jinn processors] Nvidia, joke :trollcfb: Eric Hop - Today at 5:10 AM If you are thinking there isn't much response from IF on Discord at the moment: we're all together at a summit working closely together. We're doing team building (we're from all over the globe) and work shops. Cross team presentations. And working in research groups to boost most projects forward. 7/20 David Sønstebø - Today at 1:27 AM The lightweight trinary hashfunction that IOTA set out to create with the Curl-P project will indeed be created by world leading cryptographers who specialize in exactly this field within cryptography. and yes, this has begun. 7/27 Ralf RottmannLast Monday at 5:53 PM 1.) IOTA Foundation has been very clear about the importance of manual tethering and that understanding deployment topologies will be an ongoing research topic. IOTA Foundation has also made clear, that better support for finding neighbours is a topic under active research. As the current status clearly shows, the solution is not as simple as what Nelson brings to the table. So in essence, Nelson forces IOTA Foundation to shift priorities. These things happen all the time and we are not that worried about it. We knew this ride wouldn't be easy! 2.) In an open source, permissionless environment, Roman and his team do not have to ask for permission and do not have to cooperate with anybody. They can do whatever they think might be valuable for the community, the network and its many different stakeholders. It will always be up to the users and various parties who are having an interest into the technology, to decide whether they see value being added or damage done. There is no objective judge empowered to decide. On the contrary, everyone is entitled to freely voice praise, concerns and opinion at any time. 3.) It already is public knowledge, that IOTA Foundation has been discussing ways to actively collaborate with Roman and his team a while ago but we couldn't agree around technicalities and commercials and ultimately mutually decided, that it would help the community at large, if Roman and his team stay completely independent and IOTA Foundation continues its research and development, with network topology just being a tiny part of the grand vision. 4.) Roman has publicly stated, that he is not interested in forking the project and only wants to do good for IOTA. I personally appreciate him being very clear about this, because it takes away uncertainty and speculation and I trust Roman to be genuinely honest with us. It does, however, come with the territory, that forks might happen at any time. I personally do not worry that much, should we ever see an attempt from anybody to embark on a fork. My decision to follow such an undertaking (with time, effort and money), would always be based on the likelihood of the effort to having enough funds to exist long-term. IOTA is not just about a network of nodes. Bringing the complete vision to life is an enormous effort, that will take years to come, the commitment of large corporate and public partners and affording a strong global team, to holding the pieces together. I have seen many similar initiatives failing. So far, IOTA Foundation has done very well and I'm confident we're just getting started. I hope this somewhat sets the record straight for what I've been stating on Twitter and elsewhere! dom Last Monday at 4:01 AM sidetangles are something that we are actively researching right now with a university. Quite frankly, at the current stage, they serve little purpose on the mainnet for any of our use cases or products we intend to build. dom Last Monday at 4:02 AM I'm not sure if they will be disabled by this fix entirely - I don't think so. But I will let our engineers answer that. iota yodler Yesterday at 11:35 PM is the Finish line in sight?! dom Yesterday at 11:36 PM [about recalim status] 85% David Sønstebø 07/20/2018 [Any news about IOTA and the e-krona in the past weeks? ] Nothing to report right now, in Scandinavia it is summer vacation David Sønstebø Last Wednesday at 4:43 AM [any information about work with partners, like VW, Cisco, Schindler.... etc] @DvorNick When it comes to updates with organizations we work with, it is equally in their hands. It's unfortunately an incredibly tedious process, the people we work with are excited to get news out, but they have to jump through 10 hoops to get it approved David Sønstebø Last Wednesday at 4:52 AM 1) If the community had to choose, what do you want: founders and Foundation members that can communicate in a friendly, transparent and open fashion, including the candid joking chats or shadows in ivory towers with personality cults? 2) I refuse to believe CfB has ever said: "I guarantee the price will be X" Our vision, our status updates etc. are 100% honest. That's what you need to focus on. We don't cater to speculators, we just put the truth out there, then you can interpret and speculate as you want Come-from-Beyond Last Wednesday at 4:55 AM I just said that IOTA will be #1 on CMC Come-from-Beyond Last Wednesday at 4:55 AM roughly 5 months left David Sønstebø Last Wednesday at 4:58 AM @Ryan G. 100%. 6 degrees of separation is no joke. For IF right now it's more about quality over quantity, we got way more demand than we can supply, but there's certainly a few things that will come to mind David Sønstebø Last Wednesday at 5:08 AM [You have selected great advisors for IF, well done! question: how do you work with them in the organisation?] @ets Thanks. It differs from person to person, some we are working with on a nearly daily basis, others we speak with once a week about the bigger picture, or more actively within a certain project Ralf Rottmann Last Monday at 5:07 PM @Th3B0Y We are actively engaging with Eclipse Foundation. They have governance figured out for large projects like ours. Ralf Rottmann Last Monday at 5:15 PM [will IF always decide, for example, what changes and what doesn't on IRI?] @Th3B0Y No. That's exactly what Eclipse Foundation will bring to the table. It has clearly outlined and well established processes around these things and will help us to bring in large contributors (like corporate partners) down to individuals. We are already engaging with key partners who are keen to help contributing to our code base. Moving under Eclipse Foundation involves some complex legal matters around trademarks, which is why we are not "just doing it" right away. Ralf Rottmann Last Monday at 5:22 PM [ if the IF doesn't want something to change/be added but many devs want, will it be "merged" anyway? or will they simply have to fork it?] @Th3B0Y There will be a process around it with IOTA Foundation not having sort of the ultimate power. That was never our intention. It's just required at the early stage we're at. –– Of course, everybody can decide to fork at any time and everyone can decide to go with a fork. I personally would make such a decision primarily based on the likelihood of any fork to having enough funds for supporting an undertaking as big as the IOTA vision. We have to keep it mind, it's not just about setting up a basic network! (Something we tend to forget.) 7/30 Ralf Rottmann Last Tuesday at 12:11 AM Sergey Ivancheglo is a honorary member & founder. He is not legally employed by IOTA Foundation, as many others. CfB developed the first version of COO. IOTA Foundation runs and operates COO instances and has full access to the source code. Edward Greve Last Tuesday at 12:58 AM [CFB is creating a significant portion of Tangles technology] @Deep_Sea_Hopper Not since 2016 Edward Greve Last Tuesday at 12:58 AM CFB hasn't contributed to IRI (or any other IF maintained repo) to my knowledge since then Edward Greve Last Tuesday at 1:02 AM Ict, at the moment, is being worked on by CFB alone. We (IF) have seen the code, but are not working on it until he's "done" with it and then gives it to us to fix / polish / improve and release publicly. The same thing happened with IRI ~2 years ago... Ralf RottmannLast Tuesday at 1:07 AM @Deep_Sea_Hopper For the sake of completeness and because it has been said before: We were considering working with Roman's team but the technicalities and commercials haven't worked out. We are confident, that our very own teams will figure out a solution while at the same time spending our funds in line with our charitable, non-profit boundaries. -- There are some good news in this: We all seem to be completely aligned about the various problem statements. The various parties can now start working on fixes. Edward GreveLast Tuesday at 1:15 AM He is saying that Ict represents the swarm nodes, and doesn't expect them to work in the current mainnet environment due to his assumption that the Ict nodes and autopeered nodes will form separate clusters, with the vast majority of transactions happening outside of the Ict cluster. Edward GreveLast Tuesday at 1:21 AM Ideally, we would have a well-researched auto peering solution, which answers all of the open questions. I don't see it happening that quickly though. It's a complex problem. Ralf RottmannLast Tuesday at 3:31 AM @lluisin I have explained it before: We did take a thorough look at Nelson and decided, that we leverage our engineering team, to address the problem of automatic peering. As a charitable non-profit foundation (sorry for constantly reminding everyone of this), we need to pick carefully, where we spend money. We currently cannot justify to enhance a "product" that we ultimately do not believe in as a solution to a core challenge. As towards collaboration with Roman in a professional capacity, we did discuss this openly with him and his brother but couldn't agree on the technicalities and commercials. Ralf RottmannLast Tuesday at 3:39 AM Applied to what Roman and his team do, this means we can't invest into Field, which is not yet open source and not developed in the open. Same is true for Hercules. We could potentially invest into Nelson but don't think it's solving the problem the right way. We haven't done an exhaustively deep analysis. We haven't prepared a laundry list of points, that Roman and his team could work upon to make Nelson better. Nelson is not our product. We don't believe in it. Hence we're not "wasting" the Foundation's time and money on improving it. We (have to) live with the consequences it causes and instead ramp up our own efforts to eliminate the root issues. Thanks to the many donors who believe in the project, we have the funds to work on this for years to come and are confident that time and dedication will bring us there. Ralf RottmannLast Tuesday at 3:46 AM I absolutely understand that humans tend to jump on apparent short term fixes and it's extremely difficult to stay patient. And there is one other aspect: Workarounds like Nelson constantly challenge the network and our basic assumptions. They help surfacing what we don't know. It's not always fun, but it certainly helps driving IOTA forward! So we are eternally grateful for having Roman and every other community developer around. We also believe, there are vast commercial opportunities for the community in IOTA. Spending Foundation money on those just is a totally different story. For the Semko brothers there is absolutely nothing to worry about. There also is no attitude. I think this very open debate is a testament to exactly that. The community has asked for more transparency. We hopefully have established that. Since my very first day in this community, I always said what I mean. You can either ask for my honest opinion or should not ask me. It would have been way easier to respond with some generic paragraph about how much we appreciate every contribution and move on. The fact of the matter is: We are all in this together for a multitude of different reasons. That is what makes IOTA so fascinating. As the only party, who is a regularly audited charitable non-profit, we are legally required to make all of our decisions transparent. Hence we sometimes cannot rush out fixes, release untested software or do quick investment decisions. When the IOTA founders chose a non-profit foundation, they did so for a reason. One thing everyone can be absolutely assured at any time: IOTA Foundation is not in this for any commercial purposes. It has no shareholders. No beneficiaries. No owners. It is owned by itself. That's a major advantage. (And also, why I'm not at all nervous about the potential of any forks. Going with a fork that's not governed as a charitable non-profit would be borderline stupid.) Ralf RottmannLast Tuesday at 4:07 AM Getting back to Nelson: As Roman stated earlier, we had Mathew Yarger looking into Nelson. We do plan to send our findings and questions to Roman by the end of the week. Out of respect, I would leave it up to Roman whether he wants to share publicly and to which extend he sees value in keeping the community updated about our interaction. Come-from-BeyondLast Tuesday at 4:53 AM I'm back guys, has anyone reviewed my claim that current Nelson's strategy contradicts to what was recommended in that paper about reaching consensus? (https://www3.nd.edu/~mhaenggi/pubs/jstsp11.pdf) Ralf RottmannLast Tuesday at 5:04 AM [Okay so the lower rotation frequence creates wormholes? ] @PatriQ That’s actually the entire point. It’s a hard problem to solve. Needs research. Thoroughly reading relevant papers. Rushing out a workaround and hoping it “just works” is not the way the foundation can handle things. And we take the liberty to occasionally highlight this aspect. Come-from-BeyondLast Tuesday at 5:04 AM [Okay so the lower rotation frequence creates wormholes?] Higher rotation frequency does. Also make sure that you have not more than 3 active neighbors with manual tehtering we use 5-7 assuming that some neighbors will die PatriQLast Tuesday at 5:06 AM Okay so we figured out couple of points: 1# Higher rotation frequency creates wormholes. 2# Max 5-7 neighbors (thats included with Nelson) What else? Ralf RottmannLast Tuesday at 5:16 AM @Deep_Sea_Hopper We did an analysis and Roman is in touch with Mat. Come-from-BeyondLast Tuesday at 5:42 AM @PatriQ 2# Max 5-7 neighbors (thats included with Nelson) 3 neighbors if Nelson is used (assuming those neighbors are active ones) David SønstebøLast Tuesday at 9:34 AM Today has been an interesting one. Some topics need to be clarified right away: The IOTA Foundation is 100% supportive of any third party actors such as the Semko brothers, the IOTA project is an open and permissionless one; therefore everyone has the right to develop on top of it. In fact, the entire IOTA project is dependent on it. Independent entities, whether big or small, getting involved and developing in conjunction with or independent of the IOTA Foundation is a mantra we have been preaching since the very inception of IOTA. It is the vision we still have for the future of IOTA. As an open source project, this is crucial for success. Another vital aspect is a drastic improvement in communication, bilaterally between IF and third parties, as well as in general to the broader community. We are happy to say that this is the number one priority of the foundation at the moment. We know that people can become confused and begin to speculate, rightfully so, when there is a vacuum in communication. If something is going on with the network that we have not communicated beforehand, then Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt kicks in. What we are working on right now is weekly newsletters, weekly update blog posts on certain days, and a roadmap that is continually up to date, that will give everyone a clear insight into where the different projects are, both from development and research perspectives, as well are defined ETAs. The IOTA community is a smart and driven one, but no one can be expected to predict the future or read our minds; therefore it is incumbent upon the IOTA Foundation to communicate in a fashion that gives people predictable roadmaps and status updates to avoid excessive worrying. Finally, everyone should feel absolutely free to raise their opinions and ask whatever questions they feel like. At the end of the day we are all in this together, and while the work being conducted by IF now is more efficient and focused than ever before, it is ultimately our responsibility that this is reflected in our communication and thus permeates the attitude of the project overall. Come-from-BeyondLast Friday at 3:36 PM [Is it attacker led or just a bad fix in 1.5.2?] 1.5.2 is a first half of the fix, next version will deploy the other half Let's do totalizator, like horse-racing but in our case one with highest confirmation ratio will win? Come-from-BeyondLast Friday at 5:19 PM [when fix to the IRI?] Dunno, IF doesn't rush to release a fix, its goal not only to make users happy but also to analyze attacks and counterattacks 7/30 domYesterday at 5:27 PM network protocol and syncing is something we are looking deeper right now. But the network layer is the number one bottleneck of IOTA right now. domYesterday at 5:50 PM waiting on the Desktop release, then we will work on the Ledger integration. but the community already did a fantastic job there domYesterday at 5:51 PM yeh, Trinity Desktop will be amazing I really want to see an IOTA App Marketplace evolve around that, where people can then test various use cases. Like the TipBot, secure audit trails, timestamping documents, paying for storage etc. it can become a gateway for a sort of sandbox environment, where you can try these apps out and just contribute through that (experimenting with new IOTA-based apps). domYesterday at 6:02 PM btw, I think IOTA is one of the few projects where the community is contributing a lot of great development, making this really a more decentralized ecosystem. Ethereum has that, and maybe Bitcoin, but I don't know of any other project that has fully working core clients, libraries ,node deployment scripts and services (like the tipbot) like we do domYesterday at 6:43 PM [I was quoting David a few months ago where target was > 100 CTPS EOY 18] we still aim for that domYesterday at 6:48 PM [wasn't the tangle taken down regularly by attackers even with the COO? How is a large corp going to commit?] we have a technical roadmap and we stick to that - this includes achieving the KPI's mentioned above. Right now we have to resolve a lot of technical debt from previous years, but we are quickly catching up and making IRI more robust. Private Tangles are great for corporates to experiment right now. Ralf RottmannYesterday at 3:49 AM I understand the rationale behind it but don’t like how the idea, once people get used to it, might pave the way to transaction-fees. Of course everyone can built businesses on top of IOTA and that is a huge part of building an ecosystem. I just wouldn’t personally endorse the idea to prioritize value tx at this stage of the project. Not meant as an offense! Roman SemkoYesterday at 4:06 AM Not taken as offence, @Ralf Rottmann ! We are all grown ups to discuss this in a civilized manner. I am not intending to keep this tipsel algo. It is just one temporary node targeting to solve current bottleneck. Nothing more. I am of the same opinion as you on this one. Ralf RottmannYesterday at 4:08 AM Thanks, @Roman Semko. May I cross-post this to twitter? People seem to somehow think the two of us are enemies... I plan to add Hercules nodes to IOTA.FM over the weekend. If that doesn’t prove otherwise, I don’t know! 8/1 Come-from-BeyondToday at 8:02 AM [any hot news or maybe a riddle to tied us over until the next major development?] Have you seen Li-Fi demo transferring data over 1 km? Come-from-BeyondToday at 8:06 AM [Link please!] good that no, because it's classified :trollcfb: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jV3RpeJNvbU&feature=youtu.be David SønstebøToday at 2:26 AM LiFi is part of the start-up of me and @Come-from-Beyond yes, it's a natural extension of enabling a true mist of computing David SønstebøToday at 2:27 AM [Lifi is a JINN project?] @Crewtons Tied to Jinn Labs, not JINN 8/2 David SønstebøYesterday at 11:04 PM @everyone The IOTA Foundation is revamping and allocating more resources towards its communication strategy at the moment. We consider it pivotal for the success of the project to have a thriving community, a key ingredient in maintaining and growing that is to improve the communication from the Foundation to the community. As part of this new initiative, there will predictable/scheduled blog post updates from the Research, Engineering, Social and Biz Dev/Partnerships departments coming soon. Research will be posting a new topic delving into the nitty-gritty of IOTA every other Wednesday from now on, starting with today's piece by Alon Gal: https://twitter.com/iotatoken/status/1024656969590812673 DaveToday at 3:07 AM [Who is HusQy from the IF?] He is working on local snapshots, he will be announced soon green_protocolToday at 4:42 AM http://www.lighting.philips.com/main/products/lifi Philips Canada and Cisco Canada have demo'ed LIFI Come-from-BeyondToday at 6:52 AM [call me whatever, ban me if you want, but lifi seems really stupid] agree, so is WiFi and Bluetooth which are just radio which was invented 100 years ago :trollcfb: Come-from-BeyondToday at 6:55 AM [So, this laser demo, is this for connecting clusters in EC?] no, it's for connecting buildings in cities Come-from-BeyondToday at 7:03 AM [How I’m going to use lifi on my grandma village! They don’t have light on the streets] that was just few milliWt demo, use few killoWt one and you'll be able to play Star Wars with your friends Come-from-BeyondToday at 7:05 AM [How you gonna power that 1kW laser] connect to neighbors Bitcoin mining farm, he won't notice that I connected :trollface: [But LiFi isn't new.. What is so special about your LiFi CFB?] 5G is not new too, just radio :trollcfb: Eric HopToday at 8:51 AM [Can we expect an Qubic update 3.8.?] Yep, of course. 3rd of the month. 8/3 Edward GreveYesterday at 7:37 PM @everyone IRI 1.5.3 is out now! The new version of IRI addresses the blowball problem seen on Mainnet. Download IRI 1.5.3 here. https://github.com/iotaledgeiri/releases/tag/v1.5.3 domYesterday at 4:37 PM Rolf is probably moving on to an even bigger opportunity (maybe even a DAX company). Ralf is still 100% committed to IOTA and is part of the Foundation. once we can share more, we will tell you guys :smiley: Maybe Rolf himself will come on discord. domYesterday at 4:39 PM [And your work with VW is still intact?] of course same with Fujitsu domYesterday at 4:39 PM we are still working with them on Industry 4.0 related topics. We are in touch with several different departments there domYesterday at 4:58 PM [.rolf has been instrumental & a great advocate for IOTA would be a shame to lose such a visionary.] we are not losing him at all :smiley: [has Oliver bussmann left the foundation??] yes, we no longer work with Oliver [–]domschDominik Schiener - Co-founder of IOTA 32 점 1 일 전에 We will have an update on the data marketplace very soon :)
DECENTRALIZED FOOD DELIVERY SERVICE SALES BEGINS EARLY FEBUARY OUR MISSION In today’s world the technological development strides ahead very quickly. The trends of digitization and automation are already in full swing. The development of the Blockchain technology has led to a new trend– the trend of decentralization. There is not only one catchword to describe this process. The trend is rather a whole philosophy and mindset what shows the importance of cryptocurrencies. Pioneering projects like Ethereum, the DAO, Dash and many more show how decentralization can be defined in a new way with innovative business models, business processes, applications and other services. These projects are not only decentral in their technological architecture and partly in their political organization. They also give cryptocurrency’s owner the chance to be involved in the success. In these cases, the cryptocurrencies are both a means of payment and a profit sharing. The success of most cryptocurrencies is based on the clear disruptive potential. The cryptocurrencies have not reached their limits yet. They mainly function as investments or rather as a speculation medium and only for a few people as a means of payment. The adaption of the wide mass is essential if we want to push the decentralization with its advantages, visions and mindset to its limits. The full potential and the price stability show up when cryptocurrencies are used as a method to pay on daily basis. Our mission is to establish cryptocurrencies in millions of people’s everyday life’s This is the goal we want to achieve with sesame. Our food delivery platform is built on smart contracts on ethereum network. Our Sesame token will be as a native currency on our platform and opens many more features for token holders. Customers can use SST tokens as a payment option and get 15% discounted prices. You get SST as a reward for every submitted valuable review and shared or uploaded images and videos of their tasty foods or deliveries. We will have social network called SesameTalk - where customers share their recipes, thoughts and expressions from recent orders and many more. Customers can tip their delivery drivers for their awesome job. Our platform will be different from current platforms like grubhub and postmates by being on the blockchain which adds more transparency and trustless platform. no more fake reviews because of smart contracts only delivered orders will be reviewed and no more paid search options. The first step is to tokenize an on-demand delivery service for food. The idea behind is to create a usage with daily transactions. The application breaks classic structures because it is developed and expanded by the community (couriers, clients, restaurants and uninvolved ones) and not by a management that wants to make millions in profit. We care about communities’ needs and wishes. The vision is a decentral structure with a design that will be developed gradually. The aim is to create a common consensus that is on one hand competitive and allows a strategic goal-oriented procedure on the other hand. Furthermore, it increases the welfare of all participants in the system. INTRODUCTION - PROBLEMS Why an on-demand delivery service? The food industry services basic needs We spend more than one hour per day eating– in total this number sums up to 30.000 hours looking at a whole life and $100.000 (14% of our household income). As the food intake is a human basic need and will always be, the food industry is one of the oldest sectors in world’s history. The food industry’s annual sales in the European Union is more than 1.2 trillion. Therefore, it represents the biggest manufacturing industry in the EU (2016). On-demand delivery services – a sector with hypergrowth The delivery services sector is in change. In the past 15 years the so-called aggregators (software-only) dominated the delivery services – but in 2013 “new delivery services” arise and became the new stars. Those new delivery services undertake the task of delivering food from restaurants to people’s homes (on-demand) with an own fleet business. The advantages for restaurants are high flexibility as well as no fix staff costs. Thus, these concepts fit for high quality and unique restaurants and not only for typical fast food restaurants The concrete problems Despite the boom of new delivery services, they are in public critique. A lot of restaurants fight with high commissions (approx. 20-30%) and the couriers complain about exploitative working conditions and bad salaries. At the same time the known delivery services are losing sums over ten million dollar every year High commissions, low wages and still no profit The business model is highly rated because of its high range and the fast growth, but it still does not make any profits. The fast growth implicates the need of more personnel. Not only couriers are necessary but also staff for administration, sales, acquisition of couriers and staff planning. In addition, even more staff is necessary in the administration. It is common that those companies spend a lot of money for marketing campaigns like coupons, numerous giveaways, fancy poster advertisements and for opening up new delivery districts. Competition and commercialization against customer benefits – an expensive agent These high operating expenditures are necessary in the delivery service’s strategy. Important key terms are ‘round of financing’ and ‘flotation’ to ensure the financial survival of the business model as well as the growth. The company has to show a good performance in the contest, which is very expensive, to be attractive for investors. Therefore, it is no surprise that the restaurants and couriers are of secondary importance in this vicious circle. THE SOLUTION Decentralization Sesame token – we develop a service which is architectural and political usefully decentralized and possess all significant elements of an on-demand delivery service. It’s a great pleasure to announce to you all that sesame token will be out as a native currency on our platform which has a lot of outstanding features for token holders. Our client can use SST token as a payment option with an advantage of getting 15% discounted prices. You will get SST as a reward for every submitted value review, shared or uploaded images and videos of your tasty food or deliveries We also have social network called SesameTalk - where customers share their recipes, thoughts and expressions from recent orders and many more. Customers can tip their delivery drivers for their awesome job. Operative process In the order and delivery process a direct peer-to-peer connection of all participated instances will be established with a safe payment transaction and delivery handout. The part of expensive agents is not necessary. The participants in the process (restaurants, couriers and clients) are our focus. They are value creators and earning contributors. DEVELOPMENT In a project oriented Open Source Development user can push new developments and can hand in new global and local concepts. The respective board can vote for marketing campaigns, new features, etc. and can allocate a corresponding budget. THE TECHNICAL IMPLEMENTATION Introduction – What is blockchain technology? (This section gives a short overview on the Blockchain technology in a simplified presentation. There is no previous knowledge needed. For further information we advise you to search for deeper information about cryptocurrencies by yourself. If you are already familiar with the topic Blockchain and cryptocurrencies you can skip this part and start reading the next chapter) ‘Blockchain-technologies possess the potential to define the method of how we economize in a new way. Bitcoin is only a first representative.’ But what exactly is the Blockchain? You may probably know the term Blockchain if you think about Bitcoin. The easiest way of description is the comparison with a digital cash book. Network’s participants execute transactions with associated protocols. The so called ‘miners’ register these transactions. The miners verify transactions, combine them to new blocks and extend the Blockchain with the combined blocks. Sender and receiver get a transparent overview of how many coins/tokens have been transferred (in this case the Bitcoin-Blockchain ‘Bitcoins’) with this method. It is an anonymous method because senders and receivers are only listed with their ‘public key’ in the network. The miners always have a local image installed and they do not need to check it on a central server. Another advantage is the complex encryption which makes the Blockchain tamper-proof. Hackers who want to manipulate the cash book must control 51% of the mining network (network transactions). To gain this computing power, various large companies are insufficient. In addition, this theoretical approach is not a guarantee for a successful attack of the network. In practice, the older the logging of a transaction in the Blockchain, the more difficult is the manipulation. Therefore, the Blockchain is safer, the more miners take part in the network. The miner is being rewarded for the verification and the expansion of the Blockchain due to the designed protocol. Everyone can own Bitcoins, transfer them and take part as a miner in the mining-process. If we take a closer look on Bitcoin and its rising value we will see that a lot of mining-farms have been established in Asia to collaborate as a mining-pool. With this technology digital units (coins/tokens) are created and called cryptocurrency. Unlikely to common FIAT currencies (Dollar, Euro, etc.) there is no trust in a state or bank needed. The security is given by the Blockchain itself. A Blockchain-protocol is being programmed and released. Therefore, it does not have a possessor in its decentralized environment. If the protocol should be changed, the majority of the miners have to be convinced. The technology cannot be used as a cash book only but is also able to function as a data base for random information. The significant advantage is first that no central authority which provides servers is needed and second that this instance is not responsible for the security and validity of the transactions. The technology is seen as disruptive because this function is the common business model of a lot of service providers like banks, insurances, notaries, etc.) Why Ethereum? We feel confident with using the Ethereum-Blockchain as the perfect platform for sesame. Not only because of the large community but also because of the powerful programming language for developing smart contracts. Ethereum offers a various number of possibilities due to its programming language (Solidity) as well as the power to create new processes in different levels and to automatize them independently. Furthermore, the Ethereum core team will advance the platform’s development with new functions and more stability. In addition, a solution will be offered for scalability issues for example by using the sharding proposal or furthermore the plasma framework. SESAME TOKEN ECOSYSTEM The system is now able to show the available restaurants in the customer’s area. Simultaneously, uPath determines the predicted time of delivery range for each restaurant considering order volumes, distance and supplier availability. If the customer has selected a restaurant, the shopping cart can be put together checked again and a method to pay can be chosen. Then the delivery details, the shopping cart and the price included transaction fees (depends on the payment method) are displayed. After a final check the transaction can be performed. The customer gets the confirmation of transaction and the delivery process starts to show up. Payment To create a customer friendly experience also Fiat currencies (PayPal and credit cards) are accepted besides the sesame-Token due to an external interface. In addition, common crypto currencies should be available. For customers who are not familiar with crypto currencies, we want to provide the opportunity of using the sesame platform as simple as possible in sense of mass adaption Nevertheless, the whole protocol is bound to the sesame-Token. Thus, a direct exchange is mandatory. Therefore, an exchange service is implemented. Ideally, some of the planned decentral exchange solutions are fully developed and available as a service at that time. The user’s advantage to use the sesame-Token is that the customer’s will get 15% discounted prices. Furthermore, the usage of the sesame-Token should be rewarded with coupons in the launch phase depending on the budget available Delivery process After the order- and payment process has been completed, the delivery process begins. Customers are even eligible to order delivery to their doorstep, can even stroll out for pick up or book a table to eat in the restaurant. The deliverer gets the order confirmation while the restaurant prepares the order. The both protocols interact insofar as the pickup time of the dish can be predicted. In the meantime, the courier can drive to the restaurant and use the displayed route. After the courier has reached the restaurant a quantity visual inspection takes place. The courier validates whether the ordered number of dishes and drinks is correct. There is no need for the courier to check for absolute correctness because this is the restaurant’s responsibility and would make an efficient process impossible. After completing the visual inspection, the courier signs the goods’ acceptance. Then the courier will be led to the customer with the help of uPath or rather with the external map service. If the courier has reached the destination, the delivery takes place. The customer checks whether the order is quantitatively complete and signs the goods’ acceptance to finish the delivery process. Thereupon, uPayment transfers the commissions for the courier, the collectable amount for the local and global board as for the recruiter and the core team. The payment for the restaurant is blocked for approximately two hours via time lock. During that time slot the customer has the chance to open an additional claim, which in turn activates the uSupport protocol. If no customer reaction happens, the money will be transferred to the restaurant after the time lock has been expired. Signatures are being processed with code keys or QR codes. Both will be generated randomly, cryptographically and locally. They are stored on smartphone or other devices. If one of the signatures is absence the transaction cannot be fulfilled completely. Optimized cost structure We at sesame follow another approach and dissociate from the aggressive competition. Our aim is to minimize the administrative costs in favor of couriers and restaurants. Sesame is not a service that aims to establish an empire and has to spend high investments for self-marketing. Sesame is more a public accessible protocol which provides the automated and decentralized on-demand delivery service system. The official administration is limited to the core team, what provides system stability, develops legal bases and compiles (related to the financial volume) new developments. The expansion will be reached together with the community and the help of the decentral franchise concept. The original valuable process of the service will be automated and decentralized by the Blockchain and the uChain-Protocol. INITIAL TOKEN SALE
It’s a great pleasure to announce to you all that sesame token will be out as a native currency on our platform which has a lot of outstanding features for token holders. Our client can use SST token as a payment option with an advantage of getting 15% discounted prices. You will get SST as a reward for every submitted value review, shared or uploaded images and videos of your tasty food or deliveries.
At the initial token sale, the sesame-Token will be offered in a public crowd sale. In this context the ERC20 based as crypto currency, the terminus “Token” is correct. The term “Initial Coin Offering” (short ICO) has been established within the public sale of Coins or Tokens, which is equate to the term Token Sale .Sesame Tokens are sold for ETH.
You May not be picked if you do not include the http:// before your ref link.
Hello all, Thanks to a suggestion, we have decided to make a sticky listing some of the most common beermoney sites in order to clear up some of the repeat clutter we get here. Do not make threads promoting these websites. (Good quality announcements about special events for these sites though are allowed.) We will discuss each site briefly. After this is where you come in though. We would like your advice about tips and tricks for making the most of and saving time on each site. Please share your insight and experiences in the comments. This will be a continually changing sticky. More advice will be added/removed about each site as necessary. For those who currently don't have an account with any of these sites below, if this post has been helpful to you, please use the link to the site provided if you want to join. SwagBucks Contest Winner Referral Link [US, CA, UK, AUS, INDIA, IRELAND] (Use sign-up code BEERMONEY for a 70SB bonus!) Payment proof Probably one of the most common, well known beer money sites. They offer a lot to do so you shouldn't get too bored. Their mobile apps(Swagbucks tv- 36 SB, Entertainow- 10 SB, Moviecli.ps- 10 SB, Sportly.tv- 10 SB, Indymusic.tv- 10 SB, and Lifestylz.tv- 10 SB) can get you $25+ per month just for running videos.
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↪ Age minimum: 13 ↪ Offers: Desktop and mobile web videos, surveys, polls, special offers, Buzz TV, promotion codes, run your own charity fundraiser, 15% referral bonus for life ↪ Payout: (100 HD$ = $1) Gift cards from Amazon, Paypal, and Top Charities starting as low as $5. ↪ Referral Incentive: 200 HD$ for signing up with registration code BEERMONEY200 TIPS • Free 5 HD$ for logging in daily, Up to 20 HD$ free daily for BuzzTV outbound traffic • Nearly unlimited videos to watch, emails for high completion rate surveys
↪ Age minimum: 13 ↪ Offers: Offerwalls, checkins, surveys, apps to download, tasks, search bar, gifthulk tv, codes, games and shopping incentive that give gifthulk coins ↪ Payout: (1000 HC = $1) Abundance of giftcards including amazon, paypal, walmart, gamecard, facebook, and bitcoin. ↪ Referral Incentive: Up to 600 hulk coins each TIPS • Play the card-guessing game every day
PERK Contest Winner Referral Link [US, UK, CAN, AUS, AND A FEW OTHERS] PerkTV is an app that gives you points for letting your phone or ipod touch play videos. All the videos play continuously one after another so it's possible to let PerkTV run for days at a time to earn points. Payment proof
↪ Age minimum: 13 ↪ Offer: Let videos continuously play on your phone or ipod touch for points. Every 1000 points is roughly $1. In the US, every 2 videos gets you 4 points. In Canada, every 4 videos gets you 4 points. In other countries, every 20 videos gets you 4 points. ↪ Payout: A $2 amazon gift card is 2500 points and a $5 amazon gift card is 5000 points so every 1000 points is roughly $1. ↪ Referral: 100 point bonus for each user that signs up using your code. TIPS • You can run videos on many devices under the same account, many users call this a Perk farm. The devices usually end up paying for themselves pretty quickly.
↪ Earn Points(100 Points=$1) through Surveys, Offers, Tasks Offerwalls and Videos ↪ Site was established in 2007. ↪ International - however most earning opportunities are for US,UK,CA and AU. ↪ Rewards are processed instantly to 24 hrs depending on your account level. ↪ Tons of Rewards from $5 Paypal, Bitcoins, Direct Deposit, Prepaid Visa GC or name brand store gift cards.
Bing Rewards [US ONLY] Get credits while you search with bing!
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↪ Age minimum: 13 ↪ Offer: Listen to at least 1 min 30 sec of a song and write a constructive review. They have drastically reduced how much they pay though. ↪ Payout: Minimum $10 paypal. ↪ Referral: Percentage of earnings from each. Right now it's 15%. TIPS • Keep an eye out for when they have bonus days, otherwise it can be a little slow to make money. TIPS:
Amazon Mechanical Turk [US] This site is a bit different from your typical beer money site. This is a bit more professional. You work for "requesters" and they approve or reject your submitted content called "hits." Many people here think this great and it often gets them more money than other sites. They do require more personal info from you than the sites above for tax reasons (even though you likely won't have to worry about it) and not everyone gets approved to work here.
↪ Age minimum: 18 ↪ Offers: Different tasks requesters want you to do for money ↪ Payout: Amazon Payments balance or bank account ↪ Referral Incentive: None TIPS • Don’t use mturk without having turkopticon installed. It’s a browser add-on that allows workers to post reviews about requesters and gives you a good idea of whether or not to attempt a HIT based on the requester’s reputation. • Only do hits that pay at least 10¢/minute. Mturk grind forum and /hitsworthturkingfor are good places to check for worthy hits. • It is better to return a hit (it will not negatively impact you) than submit if you are unsure whether the requester will approve it.
Sites to Avoid: Definitely DO NOT post these. ✖ Paidverts shady owner, sketchy site. Keep doing debt swaps(cash to BAP). Do not post. ✖ DigitalGeneration put a bitcoin miner and spyware in their software. Never paid out. Avoid at all costs. If you’ve downloaded it before, do a virus scan. ✖ Neobux isn’t REALLY a scam, but they operate as a pyramid scheme. There’s money to be made online, but it’s definitely not there. ✖ Locket used to be good, but not anymore - guess they realized that their platform won't be profitable enough, if at all. They did pay out all the users, but you won't be making money with this app any more. ✖ MarketGlory does pay out, but the pay is absolutely ridiculous. The only way to make a decent amount of money is to have a lot of referrals, and referral whoring on this subreddit WILL result in a permanent ban.7 ✖ IPUServices stopped paying out altogether. No response to questions regarding payouts. Avoiding is recommended. ✖ Cash2Refer Does not pay out and awards way too much for merely referring people. $5 per visit? Come on. ✖ MindSumo Not actually a beermoney site, only spam in this sub. ✖ G2A Scam/sells stolen keys Generic news sites that pay you ridiculous amounts to read an article (two euros??): Common sense should take care of this, but in case it doesn’t, it’s always a scam. Site is usually hosted somewhere in Eastern Europe, and there is never a payout. Free bitcoin sites/"faucets"(THIS INCLUDES QOINPRO): Not referring to those video-viewing/task sites (although they’re still paying fragments of a penny). I’m talking about sites that give you 0.000001BTC to fill a captcha (freebitco.in, dailybitcoins). Admittedly many beermoney sites pay low, but don’t even bother with these. Also: Bitcoin mining is NO LONGER PROFITABLE. If you're really so keen on getting bitcoins, doing so through an exchange is your best option.
Facebook’s Libra won’t be as power-hungry as Bitcoin
Libra, Facebook’s new cryptocurrency, is expected to have a smaller environmental footprint compared to some of its more notorious blockchain brethren, including bitcoin, according to experts. Its energy demands are projected to be more like those of existing data centers — which, while still demanding, aren’t quite as energy-hungry as mining bitcoins. The currency hasn’t launched yet, so it’s hard to know how those claims will stack up against reality. But its design — more centralized than most cryptocurrencies — means that Libra will likely draw less energy. Unlike its more decentralized peers, only a few trusted members of the Libra Association, the centralized hub for the currency, can create Libra. AN ORDER OF MAGNITUDE MORE EFFICIENT THAN BITCOIN “This is an order of magnitude more efficient than bitcoin will ever be,” says Ulrich Gallersdörfer, a researcher at Technical University of Munich focused on blockchain research. Gallersdörfer was the co-author on a recent paper in Joule30255-7) finding that bitcoin operations emit more climate-warming gas than the country of Jordan. Bitcoin uses so much energy because people who want to hold the cryptocurrency have to compete for it. That means bitcoin mining operations need huge amounts of computing power to snag a single coin, and to stay in the running, they all need to be running a set of complicated problems all at once. That uses a huge amount of energy every year — in 2018, researchers estimated that bitcoin used about as much energy as Ireland. By contrast, Libra is designed so that an algorithm issues units of the cryptocurrency in proportion to the size of a company’s initial deposit into the system. That’s still a lot to keep track of, but it’s nowhere near as complicated as a mining operation. Instead, it’s more like… normal data centers. Now, data centers draw power, too. In fact, data centers accounted for 2 percent of the total US energy usage in 2014, a 2016 study published by the DOE found. And they’re also responsible for about as many carbon dioxide emissions as the airline industry. But despite those drawbacks, these specially designed warehouses of servers are the rocks on which tech giants like Facebook continue to build and expand their digital empire. “Facebook or other companies will have to set up servers, will have to run the software, will have to validate transactions. But that’s not really anything different to running regular services for Facebook.com or for WhatsApp,” Gallersdörfer says. A USEFUL WAY TO GENERALLY CONSIDER HOW TO MAKE DATA CENTERS LESS ENVIRONMENTALLY TERRIBLE Facebook has made concerted efforts to make their centers more sustainable, but the energy demand prompted by Libra might be a useful way to generally consider how to make data centers less environmentally terrible. The easiest thing to do is make sure that the existing resources are used efficiently — so that might mean more efficient hardware. But it also means considering the vast amounts of water used to cool servers: in a lot of cases that fresh water flows through the system and gets discarded, a horrifying waste, especially in areas with water shortages. One way to meet the challenge in a water-scarce world is to reuse water as often as possible, says Emilio Tenuta, vice president of sustainability at Ecolab. But water can’t be reused forever in cooling systems. As it gets heated and moves through the pipes, salts and other contaminants — think of scale from hard water forming in a bathroom — can build up in the machinery, making it less efficient. But by constantly monitoring and treating the water as it goes through a system, companies like Ecolab hope they can recirculate water through cooling systems as often as possible, reducing the amount of water used in data centers overall. Making existing centers more efficient is great, but products on the scale of Libra could mean new data centers — and where they are matters. Companies could save themselves (and the world) a lot of environmental angst by simply looking for better locations to put data centers in the first place, Katrina Kelly-Pitou says. THE AREA WHERE WE’RE FAILING, IN THE UNITED STATES, IS CLEANING OUR POWER SUPPLY Kelly-Pitou, an urban systems strategist with architecture and engineering firm SmithGroup, says that companies should look for places with trained software engineers — to keep the servers running smoothly — and abundant, low-carbon power sources. By relying on a nearby hydroelectric dam, wind farm, or nuclear plant instead of coal or natural gas, data centers could dramatically cut their carbon footprint. That’s because ultimately, every data center relies on the energy grid. And that’s where many current data centers are falling short. “The area where we’re failing, in the United States, is cleaning our power supply, and ensuring that we have clean energy to power the economic development that we want,” Kelly-Pitou says. Libra hasn’t launched. We don’t know if it will take off. But for it to even get off the ground, it will need data centers — and developing greener data centers, and a lower-carbon energy grid to power them is something that could pay off no matter what.
Truth about Ethereum is being banned at Bitcointalk
I have been making factual posts about Ethereum (and Synereo) and all the following posts have been deleted by the moderators and they have banned my username for making factual posts about Ethereum. A reply of yours, quoted below, was deleted by a Bitcoin Forum moderator. Posts are most frequently deleted because they are off-topic, though they can also be deleted for other reasons. In the future, please avoid posting things that need to be deleted. Quote
Quote from: damn_the_truth on Today at 05:06:30 AM TPTB_need_war was banned for 3 days for writing in big red letters that "Ethereum is broken and can't be fixed" and proceeded to defend this point factually. And so the mods have now demonstrated they are involved in the pump of Ethereum. So much for the objectivity of this forum.
They allow excessive trolling and scams no problem though.
Note TPTB_need_war posted the same statement about ETH in three threads, because suddenly 5 or 6 new threads all about pumping Ethereum appeared today. If the pumpers can make three threads, then why can't they all be rebutted? They can spam, but the opposing opinion and facts can't be. As if the opposition is the spammer but spamming the Altcoin Discussion with a proliferation of Ethereum pump threads is not spamming. Roll Eyes The thread that in particular incited me to post so forcefully in opposition is the one that as a title implying if Ethereum will go challenge Bitcoin's market cap. That is clearly manipulative of the readers inducing them into a mania based on some totally implausible proposition. How can a broken block chain design that hasn't solved the most fundamental issue pertaining to verification and scaling of long-running scripts have any chance of challenging Bitcoin's market cap. Ridiculous. Someone may want to quote this, as surely the drunk mods will delete this and permanently ban ban_the_truth (and probably they will permanently ban TPTB_need_war). Doesn't Theymos understand that you can never silence a person who knows he is just and correct. A person will fight to the death when they know truth is on their side. And will eventually win. Those who try to obscure truth will always eventually lose. A reply of yours, quoted below, was deleted by a Bitcoin Forum moderator. Posts are most frequently deleted because they are off-topic, though they can also be deleted for other reasons. In the future, please avoid posting things that need to be deleted. Quote
Quote from: WilderX on Today at 08:36:10 AM y0 newbs, you talking about issues with mining? Did you know ETH goes POS this year?
Yo clueless n00b, do you not understand the PoS doesn't rectify the fundamental flaw in the economics of the verification of long running scripts that I explained upthread and for which I have been banned for trying to point out in the numerous threads pumping Ethereum that spammed the Altcoin Discussion forum today. A reply of yours, quoted below, was deleted by a Bitcoin Forum moderator. Posts are most frequently deleted because they are off-topic, though they can also be deleted for other reasons. In the future, please avoid posting things that need to be deleted. Quote
Quote from: stoat on Today at 05:58:42 AM You still don't get it do you? The hype for ethereum is actually real. As in, it's our best hope. And people who actually want crypto to succeed as an idea will get behind it.
Oh because it is our only hope, then we have to ignore the fact that after more than a year since they took and spent ICO money, they still haven't solved the most fundamental issue of the block chain technology required for long running scripts (if they want scaling and decentralization). Put Vitalik in a live debate with me right now and I will be able to force him to admit that is the truth. Or ban_the_truth so you can sucker more n00bs into being bagholders to the insiders can cash out.
Quote from: stoat on Today at 05:58:42 AM Tptb want war, well, the entire time ive visited this forum he is either wasting everyones time with mental masturbation or simply stumbling from thread to thread FUDDing down every coin that would dare to challenge his "intellectual superiority".
Because you are not interested in actually solving the core technical challenges that inhibit cryptocurrency from scaling out to the masses and being compatible with marketing strategies that can do so, such as the one I will drop on the world. All you want is something you can pump up. And you want it sooner than it is ready. And so thus you think I am not worthy, and you think the broken Ethereum is. I never took $millions of ICO while I was researching and developing the solutions we need. Ethereum did and still didn't solve the most basic issue they need to. Whereas I have solved the major fundamental issues. Sorry if the good stuff takes time. If you are in a rush, then feel free to give your money away to those who are willing to take it. A reply of yours, quoted below, was deleted by a Bitcoin Forum moderator. Posts are most frequently deleted because they are off-topic, though they can also be deleted for other reasons. In the future, please avoid posting things that need to be deleted. Quote
Quote from: Elokane on January 25, 2016, 12:56:02 PM
Quote from: TPTB_need_war on January 24, 2016, 05:27:06 AM
Quote from: CoinHoarder on January 24, 2016, 03:28:48 AM I think social media can possibly be taken over by cryptocurrency/decentralized/blockchain technology. Think about it... Facebook has a market capitalization of 266.3 billion. What if a portion of their net profit was distributed to its users instead? Which service would you use... one that makes money off of you providing you nothing in return, or one that pays you to use its service? There are likely a few projects attempting to capitalize on this space. The only one off the top of my head I can name is Synereo and I am on the fence as to whether it is is a legit project or a P&D... I am waiting on the sidelines for now. http://www.synereo.com/
I will respond to the rest of your informative post later (as I need to go outside on this Sunday). I think Synereo may be conceptually on the right track, in that ads should preferrably be content that users want to see. I can envision content providers being creative in how they advertise products within enjoyable content. The bottom line is the economics per my prior post in reply to TechorMarketing. There were one or two ads on Google that were so interesting to me, I wanted to save a copy of the video ad. Meaning the way to beat Google is by making the advertising more efficient, thus superior ROI for all participants (advertiser, content creator, and viewer). If the superior algorithms require decentralization and cutting out the middle man, then Google with all its technical prowess can do nothing to compete.
Quote I only scanned a portion of their white paper. I believe they may have Sybil attack problems in their attention model (thus being gamed and not having the result intended), but I can't yet judge that with any certainty as I need to study it more carefully. You've given me something very intellectually deep to chomp on, so thank you. I love conceptual paradigm shifts and I like to analyze models. I will need more time on this. Looks to me as though they are serious. The devil is in the details on their technical model. They have a brainy looking CSO mathematician, so perhaps some of the model theory is originating from him.
The attention model is mine. We've designed it carefully against Sybil attacks. If you think you've identified an attack vector, do let us know -- I'll give you with an AMP bounty for it. Feel free to join our Slack channel at slack.synereo.com and chat with us there directly.
So you must be younger guy Dor who I've viewed in the Hangout videos in the Synereo channel on YouTube?
Quote from: Elokane on Today at 12:01:35 PM It is common knowledge that Greg, Synereo's CSO, is leading the design of Casper, Ethereum's new proposed Proof of Stake blockchain: https://blog.ethereum.org/2015/12/28/understanding-serenity-part-2-caspe He has spoken about the design principles of the technology underlying this effort, what would allow it to scale, in the recent Ethereum developer conference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzahKc_ukfM Synereo is NOT building their technology on Ethereum. Rather, it is Ethereum who are using Greg's decades of expertise in the field, and Synereo technology, to build their own. Ethereum has provided Synereo with developer grants for this purpose. Hopefully, collaboration will continue in other ways as well. We also believe that our notion of a "smart contract", which we call a social contract, is more advanced, mature and scalable than anyone else's. People in the industry are starting to get a sense of this as well, including our friends at Ethereum. http://blog.synereo.com/2015/03/06/social-contracts-pt-ii/ A comprehensive post going into detail about all of these subjects are in the works. Feel free to ask any other question about this here or on our slack channel at slack.synereo.com.
And appears Greg is the greying long-haired mathematician in Seattle that I've viewed on the same videos. I am doing an in depth study of your system and I am not yet ready to offer all my feedback because I am in the midst of analyzing it. However I do want to start with a few observations. First I want to thank you for providing those Hangout videos because I am gaining much information from listening to the feedbacks from the musicians. That has been very useful for my marketing research.
I will expend some time studying Casper's design, but I already watched some videos of Ethereum presentations about the strategy for shards and proofs against cheating in the attempt to achieve decentralized scaling with verification of long-running scripts. And I have explained why it will never work. I have an entire thread dedicated to discussing the finer issues with block chain consensus and the CAP theorem is fundamental. Essentially you can't use propagation as a consensus rule thus proofs against cheating will fail as methodology. You simply can't solve the Tragedy of the Commons verification problem without centralization. Period. You will eventually face come to this realization that your ideas are fundamentally flawed and can't be fixed.
An attention model based upon users approvals is probably going to suffer from the same phenomenon I observed when I asked my gf why she was rapid clicking every Like on her timeline without even reading the posts. She said because they are my friends and will Like all my posts also. But I need to study your model in detail in the white paper before I can comment further on it.
A reply of yours, quoted below, was deleted by a Bitcoin Forum moderator. Posts are most frequently deleted because they are off-topic, though they can also be deleted for other reasons. In the future, please avoid posting things that need to be deleted. Quote
Quote from: tokeweed on Today at 09:55:40 AM I appreciate that you're trying to get your argument out. And you do have some points to think about. But this is a time of less talk and more trades. There's profit to be made in this current price run, which could be one of the largest runs we've seen in altcoins.
You can't speak for all readers, because you are not all readers. Those of you who bought Ethereum at lower prices are in a different risk situation compared to those who are reading your pumping and considering whether to buy at these nosebleed levels. I am not making any guesses about whether the price will go much higher or not (manias often do). Rather I am providing balancing information for those readers who might think they can't lose because of some fundamental long-term value, which I assert does not exist because Ethereum hasn't solved the fundamental technological issue required to scale their system in terms of decentralized verification of long-running scripts. And in fact, they will not be able to solve this problem, not with Casper or anything else because it violates the CAP theorem. The only solution will end up being centralization and then therefor those who are talking about building decentralized apps on top of Ethereum (e.g. this Synereo which I will be commenting on next) are apparently in technical delusion also. Btw, I have been watching the YouTubes of this Greg @ Synereo who I just read is claimed to be the lead dev on Casper, and I will be explaining that he doesn't seem to understand block chain consensus technology. Stay tuned, this is going to get much more informative and interesting... (sorry again that TPTB_need_war remains banned by drunken mods for 3 days so ban_the_truth must communicate interim) A reply of yours, quoted below, was deleted by a Bitcoin Forum moderator. Posts are most frequently deleted because they are off-topic, though they can also be deleted for other reasons. In the future, please avoid posting things that need to be deleted. Quote
Quote from: Elokane on Today at 01:16:08 PM 2. Well, we think we have a solution! Would you like to take a look at the post Greg is writing on the subject? We'd value your direct feedback on it. This approach is different from the one Ethereum espoused before, and both Vitalik and Vlad are working with Greg to develop it now.
Will do after I finish watching the video.
Quote from: Elokane on Today at 01:16:08 PM 3. We have a mechanism taking into account a few parameters to make it so people who behave in exactly the way you describe have very little, if any, impact on this economy. Generally, we're looking for actions that have high entropy; if "B", your GF, is essentially a copy of "A", you, there's very little information there.
Is that specifically covered in the white paper or a design improvement hence? A reply of yours, quoted below, was deleted by a Bitcoin Forum moderator. Posts are most frequently deleted because they are off-topic, though they can also be deleted for other reasons. In the future, please avoid posting things that need to be deleted. Quote
Quote from: Elokane on Today at 01:23:51 PM He's providing valuable constructive feedback, which we always welcome!
Thanks. Academics understand their life is finite and thus peer review in valuable so they don't waste time down a dead end. A welcome change in tone compared to others who attack me relentlessly for trying to share/collaborate on research and analysis. A reply of yours, quoted below, was deleted by a Bitcoin Forum moderator. Posts are most frequently deleted because they are off-topic, though they can also be deleted for other reasons. In the future, please avoid posting things that need to be deleted. Quote Another thought off the top of my head is where Greg explains why the bar of implementation is so much higher and Dor astutely points out that they are competing against very well entrenched and well vetted user interfaces (Facebook, etc). I appreciate that honesty and I believe in separation-of-concerns, orthogonality, and modularity, because no only it provides more degrees-of-freedom, but it also means you don't have to necessarily implement everything yourself. It may be better to let others build those user interfaces for example from an API. But this is very complex to analyze because of the integration with the complexities of the attention model, etc.. I am just cautioning you that building all yourself, meaning you are limiting the network effects and making the scalability of the system (from the programming standpoint) funnel through your one organization. I am thinking about a marketing strategy that is much more modular and encourages others to build on top of what my project would provide. But I am also thinking about how what I am contemplating is differentiated from what Synereo is proposing and whether there are collaborative opportunities or... (conclusions still not yet clear to me) A reply of yours, quoted below, was deleted by a Bitcoin Forum moderator. Posts are most frequently deleted because they are off-topic, though they can also be deleted for other reasons. In the future, please avoid posting things that need to be deleted. Quote I need to correct an error I made upthread. I stated that the reason payers would not pay for ASIC mining farm to compute the PoW share the payer must include with the transaction, would be because the PoW share could be computed locally faster than the latency for a round-trip network request for the PoW share generated on the lowest cost ASIC mining farm. And I stated that this was because the payer would sign the PoW share, so the "provider" receiving the transaction (with the attached PoW share) would not be be able instead compute the PoW share for the payer (without the round-trip latency delay). I had stated this was a difference from Iota's design which can't allow payers to sign PoW, because Iota's defense against certain attacks requires that anyone can recompute the PoW share and reattach a transaction to a different branch of the DAG. That will not work in my design because the payer has to do a roundtrip request to request the current "intra-block chain" hash from a "provider" to include in the PoW share (otherwise the same PoW share could be submitted to multiple providers and thus payers have no vote in the LCR). Therefor the PoW share computation can be outsourced at no extra latency cost. However on further analysis this does not entirely weaken the intent of my design to remain decentralized. The key is the power remains in the hands of the payers to choose which provider to submit their transaction to and thus can choose to route away from any malfeasance (since they are paying for the PoW share via a transaction fee to the provider). Although it means mining capital costs will be reimbursed (unlike in the case where the payers' computers would compute the PoW share then the non-payers mining capital costs would be unreimbursed given the block reward would be 0 or very small relative to the difficulty), mining equipment will not be wildly profitable as in the case for Bitcoin since the reimbursement is only for costs, thus still the point remains that mining equipment won't be well capitalized for making LONG-TERM 51% attacks on the protocol (even if forced to by regulation as could be the case in Bitcoin) because the payers can send their PoW share computation else where in a heart beat. This also makes more sense because mobile users are not going to want to compute PoW shares and drain their battery. One issue is a mining farm located next to a hydropower plant would maybe have (including better economy-of-scale capital costs on equipment) up to a 10X cost advantage over a provider server that is located any host any where. Perhaps the latency to the mining farm could still be an issue (delay the transaction by another sub-second perhaps) and this could force providers to be located in the datacenters of mining farms to lower latency (which would be catastrophic to remaining decentralized since the choice of providers available to payers would be limited by such confining requirements). OTOH if the cost of the PoW is miniscule relative to the value of the transaction, then PoW share can be computed by a provider with up to 10X greater cost without impacting the payers decision which provider to choose. But remember also that the computation cost of the PoW share needs to be much greater than the validation cost of the transaction overall, but that should be doable since transaction verification is such a miniscule cost. Again remember I suggested that payers' clients (wallet software) could be induced to move to other providers when a providers PoW share exceeds 5% or so. Also it is not impossible to design the system such that payers are always listening for the current "intra-block chain" hash updates and so the original point of my latency design could remain. But this would require all payers to be receiving communications from the block chain network at all times, which would increase network load and there are Sybil attack and centralization issues about who pays for this (perhaps payers can pay a provider to provide this data feed). So it is not impossible to envision retaining my original design, but it seems to be workable only for desktops and not for wireless mobile. If latency becomes the main issue for wireless mobile then telcoms may have the upper hand any way. So it seems that the key is to keep PoW shares small enough to be miniscule relative to typical microtransaction values yet large enough to be greater than the verification cost. Also PoW has to be large enough to prevent spam on the network (which is essentially saying significantly larger than the verification cost, since the storage cost will be assumed to be even lower than the verification cost but I need to run some calculations to confirm this intuition). I am probably missing a few details in this quickly written post. The entire design could be explained more coherently in a white paper (hopefully forthcoming). P.S. Note that Iota has the similar issues, and this aspect of Iota was not my main concern expressed upthread about Iota's ability to remain Consistent about double-spends and whether that will lead to divergence (chaos). Note the above post was deleted by the mods, so I am reposting it. Someone may wish to quote the above technical discussion before some drunk mod goes "happy finger" again.
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